Sources for Ship Dimensions, esp. Steamrunner?

[Knightsfyre001]

Steve, I'm currently working up a design for a Starfleet Intelligence deep-space reconnaissance vessel, that'll use a variation of the Steamrunner design.

Now, in seeking out info on the Steamrunner on the web, I've noticed that the dimensions (notably length, since beam and height can be figured if you know length and have a schematic) seem to fit into two rough camps:

-- approx. 365 m ; as in the Starfleet SRM and on Gilso's Fleet Charts (www.gilsostartrekschetics.co.uk) -- this figure seems to float by about 10m in either direction

and

approximately 244 m; as provided by David Stipes, DS9 Visual Effects Supervisor, in a DS9 newsgroup post form Jan. 20, 1998.

Most visual sources also show the Steamie as being larger (longer) than an Intrepid, though the ST Encyclopedia's "fleet charts" shows it as smaller, (but likely larger than 244 m) which adds to the confusion.

So, that said, my question is this: What sources did you use for the dimensions of canon ships, especially the Steamrunner, where dialogue or onscreen graphics don't clue us in?


I know, I know, I'm nitpicking. That's me: Knightsfyre, charter member of Nitpickers Anonymous.
========================================
("Hi, my name is Knightsfyre, and I'm a Nitpicker. I've been clean for ... one minute, staring ...Now!")

[[no offense is intended with this joke to those who struggle with real-life addictions]]

[Don Mappin]

Without the benefit of doing any research myself, I would say use the figure from the Starfleet SRM.

Why? Aside from being a way cool guy, Steve Long has a level of attention to detail that you won't find very often. I assure you that whatever figures he used, he researched them extensively.

I'm not saying Steve's perfect, mind you. Only that in a situation where everything is equal, I'd trust Steve's research over anyone else.

[Knightsfyre001]

That's what I was thinking too, Don. I just wondered, considering the 244m figure came from someone intimately associated with the shows. Of course, even they break their own rules (ahh, DUHHH!) "now and then" (read: always), so...

My problem is that I really like the Steamrunner design, but it seems a little big for what i want, and i can't see Starfleet Inteeligence just 'ordering up' a smaller version ... more likley thewy appropriate decommissioned or damaged vessels and refurbish them. I'd prefer a ship of Size 5.

Maybe you folks out there have alternate ship sugestions?

And BTW, of course you needn't remind us that Steve is way cool. We who live and die by Spacedock and the SRMs see Steve as a sort of demigod. Stevelong, Demi-god of Design -- sounds like a new title, don't it?

[qerlin]

Use the Saber or the Defiant, 001 -- small & powerful.

An added plus -- you can get deckplans of both online. The Defiant from www.maximumdefiant.com

The Saber from http://mitglied.lycos.de/EmperorsArm/

[Sea Tyger]

The Saber would be an excellent alternative. It just reeks of being lightning in a bottle.

[Steve Long]

What sources did you use for the dimensions of canon ships, especially the Steamrunner, where dialogue or onscreen graphics don't clue us in?

It's been so long -- over two years now -- that I don't recall specifically where I got those dimensions from. I consulted a whole bunch of sources, ranging from the standard ones, to things like the Star Trek Fact Files, and on and on, that I don't remember which one that datum came from, I'm afraid. I'll poke around and see if I can find out. I know I didn't just make it up off the top o' my head.

Steve Long
HERO System Line Developer

[Phoenix]

Originally posted by Knightsfyre001
And BTW, of course you needn't remind us that Steve is way cool. We who live and die by Spacedock and the SRMs see Steve as a sort of demigod. Stevelong, Demi-god of Design -- sounds like a new title, don't it?

Demi-god sounds a bit too much like working (with followers, and priests, and etc.), I'd suggest Patron-Saint of Designs, after all IIRC it takes three Miracles to become one-

Miracle 1- Designing the Spacedock and SRM's

Miracle 2- Getting the Hero System up and running again, in good time (and when it need the help the most).

Miracle 3- Putting up with all of us, and the test readers from here.

Yup, I think he is qualified for the work-free job title

[Knightsfyre001]

Steve:

First, I'd never accuse you of making something up. Research is cool, especially when you got paid for it.

But hey, look if you've got the time, friend, ... only if you can spare it. I know you're busy, and I don't wanna steal any of your quality time with family/friends. It's not that critical.

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qerlin and sea tyger:

I seriously considered using the Saber, since it's a Size 5, and kinda fits the profile of what I'm lloking for ... but something about the look of that ship just bugs me ... yeah, i know the Steamrunner is "ugly" when you put it against designs like the Sovereign, but it's utilitarian, small, and tough.

As for a Defiant-class, it's too offensively-powered for what I want. I'm looking for a small ship that has the best possible sensors, good speed (for "getting out of Dodge" when the heat is on, and kinda light on the weapons. Since the ship's gonna be a vehicle for Starfleet Intelligence, I want the players to be able to come up with solutions to problems that don't involve just blasting the enemy from the stars...

=====================

In looking over the various sources, it seems the 365 m figure (or thereabouts) is the most common. So that's what I'm going with. Mind you, if the ship IS 365 m long, then the beam and height numbers in the SRM are a little off compared to actual ratios from the graphics. These measures come in at about 270 m beam, 56 m height. It's just easier to adjust those two numbers on the template, which won't require a reworking of all the stats to accomodate a smaller Size based on length (which doesn't work out; it comes in almost 100 SUs over the 1900 figure for Size 5 ships.)

Also, the height noted above works out to 12 decks of almost exactly 15'6" (4.72 m, approx.), which fits closely with my idea of how many decks I envision for a smallish SI ship. 9 or 10 decks in the saucer, 2-3 in the pod (which will be for sensors not a deflector)

All in all, I'll just go with a Steamrunner and adjust the necessary dimensions (of course, adjusting further once I renovate the look of the ship a little.

Look for the ship to be posted over the next week or so.

Thanks for the input.

[Steve Long]

I don't wanna steal any of your quality time with family/friends.

According to the Hero business plan, I'm not allowed to have a social life again until 2005.

Steve Long
HERO System Line Developer

[Knightsfyre001]

2005? That soon? And let me guess, you get all of one half-day (and only if it's raining).

[Cybrludite]

Originally posted by Phoenix


Demi-god sounds a bit too much like working (with followers, and priests, and etc.), I'd suggest Patron-Saint of Designs, after all IIRC it takes three Miracles to become one-

Miracle 1- Designing the Spacedock and SRM's

Miracle 2- Getting the Hero System up and running again, in good time (and when it need the help the most).

Miracle 3- Putting up with all of us, and the test readers from here.

Yup, I think he is qualified for the work-free job title

One big problem with becoming a saint: You have to die first.... I'm sure we'd rather that he hung around a bit longer...

[Cybrludite]

Originally posted by Sea Tyger
The Saber would be an excellent alternative. It just reeks of being lightning in a bottle.

Heh. Had I ever gotten around to running a ST game, I was going to have a Saber-class ship turn up that was secretly run by Section-31. USS Morningstar. Keeps with the class theme of being named for weapons & all. First real clue that all is not as it seems was going to be the quote on the Dedication Plaque... Non Serviam!

[Knightsfyre001]

My intention with this design is not to have it run by Section 31, but Starfleet Intelligence proper. That means that basic information about the ship, such as its class, original commissioning data, and status as an SI vessel, should be available to any Starfleet officer who cares to check the Starfleet database. Other info, such as technical specs, armament, crew manifest, and current location/mission/status, should be available only to those with the appropriate clearance. Outside of SI, that means admirals and top-clearance captains only (so Picard might know about it, but Captain Bateson of the Brattain might not.

Should have it up by the weekend.

[tonyg]

You might want to rethink your ship choices. If the ship is going to be part of SF Intelligence, it should probably be able to pass itself off under some sort of cover. Not much sense in advertisesing the "spy ship". An escort or crusier is going to draw way too much attention for it to do Intelligence work.

I'd reccommender either a civilian craft, or a Starfleet design that could have an excuse for doing exploration. Oberth and Nova are the right size, but supposedly short range.

Although, a modifered Oberth or Nova-class could pass off the modifications as "Deep Space" requirements.

[Knightsfyre001]

Let me clarify... when I said that Starfleet officers would be able to discover basic info about this vessel (still unnamed), I should have said that an appropriate clearance level would reveal it as an SI vessel; a general search would show it as a Steamruner-class vessel currently undergoing repairs and refits following the Dominion War. That's the "official" info; higher clearances reveal a little more about the ship, but only highest-level officers know the full truth, while only SI officials and the crew of the vessel themselves will know the full details of the ship's tech specs, etc.

As for it being an escort/cruiser and not being able to carry off a deep-cover mision profile, I'd normally agree, except that this ship is going to have every possible stealth system short of a cloaking device, include PIMESS, hull holoemitters, an advance "Silent Running" mode, etc ... in fact, that's one possible story thread: the vessel comes exceedingly close to violating the Treaty of Algeron with its combined stealth systems, and if the Romulans ever discovered this, a major diplomatic incident might result...

I also decided early on that this ship would be a variant of an existing class, rather than a unique design, feeling that, while SI would normally be able to requisition the appropraite resources from Fleet Operations, the Dominion War and its impact on Starfleet would stretch FleetOps to the limit, placing on hold any new designs that had not started production; so instead, SI simply "procured" (through channels or not, no one is sure) a damaged vessel which fit their requirements, and had their own crew of engineers refit the ship to their specs.

Looking over the exisitng designs, I decided it needed to be a vessel that was smallish,fast, relatively well-armed, and while the Nova might fit the bill of fast and small, she's too lightly armed, and upgrading her weapons would detract from the ability to upgrade sensors and add the stealth systems. As for the Oberth, she's relatively old, and I'm not sure she'd be able to sustain the necessary upgrades...

I do share some of the concerns you've mentioned, tonyg, and if anything, that's what's holding up the posting of this vessel. I want to get the description and notes just right in what they reveal or don't...